(no subject)

[a_t_rain]

OK, so I was just thinking, and I've got a new theory. If Dumbledore's theory is correct (and I guess we've got to assume it is, though why Voldemort would want to use a live snake for this purpose is beyond me), the Horcruxes are as follows:

1) Voldemort himself, whom we meet in Book One.
2) The diary, which Harry destroys in Book Two.
3) Something of Gryffindor's or Ravenclaw's (?)
4) Nagini, whom we saw for the first time in Book Four.
5) The locket, presumably the same one the Order found while they were cleaning out 12 GP in Book Five.
6) The ring, which appears in Book Six.
7) The cup, which we haven't seen in "real time" at all; presumably, we will in Book Seven.

It looks an awful lot like there's a one-per-book pattern, and if so, this mysterious object of Gryffindor's or Ravenclaw's should be something that we've seen in passing in Book Three. Any guesses?

Comments

[lazy-neutrino.livejournal.com]

Maybe it's hidden down the caved-in secret passage that F+G tell Harry about when they give him the Marauder's Map?

[dharmavati.livejournal.com]

You know that passage behind the mirror that caved in really sounds suspicious. Harry never bothered to go there, even though it was mentioned again in OoTP. I think I like this theory.

[a-t-rain.livejournal.com]

Interesting thought, although I'm inclined to think it's something we've actually seen... Maybe something in Trelawney's classroom? It would be just like her to own something of tremendous importance and totally miss its significance...

I hope it's not Sir Cadogan, anyway. I like the wacky knight far too much.

[lazy-neutrino.livejournal.com]

Sir Cadogan occurred to me. If it isn't him, maybe he knows where it is...

'A quest!'

Maybe it's one of the crystal balls? 'Godric's Balls' might be an epithet we haven't encountered yet, with a double meaning which has been lost over time. (Or not!)

Maybe Ollivander knows something.

[a-t-rain.livejournal.com]

Maybe Ollivander knows something.

Or Fortescue. It is a bit suspicious that the DEs would go after a seemingly harmless ice-cream vendor -- whose hobby just happens to be medieval history!

[lazy-neutrino.livejournal.com]

Oh, is it? I missed that!

[yma2.livejournal.com]

Oooh! Cunning! The question of what the Horecrux is in book three has been bothering me for ages, I'm glad your adressing it... :goes to read the rest of the replies:

[winding_path]

My friend Ian suggested it was Harry himself. A theory that I've seen one or two other places, but not much. Harry is a "true Gryffindor," after all.

I'm not sure how I feel about that, but it's something to think on.

[a-t-rain.livejournal.com]

But doesn't Voldemort intend to kill Harry in the graveyard scene in GoF? The only way I can see this theory working is if LV accidentally made Harry into a Horcrux on Halloween '81, but doesn't know that he is one.

[hannahmarder.livejournal.com]

There has been much speculation in the past about that passageway, so it may be a possibility. I tend not to go for 'one per book' type of theories, but it's certainly intriguing. I'm not sure if you can count the cup as book 7, since we do see it in HBP. Is it possible that we first see it in book three? Maybe it's the Quidditch Cup, since that's the first time they win it... no, that probably isn't right. Though talk about hiding it in plain sight! And it would make all the obsessing over Quidditch turn out to be more important than they ever realised - imagine how Ron would love saying 'told you so!' to Hermione.

I rather like the idea of it being the Sorting Hat. For the purposes of my latest WIP, I'm having it as an Egyptian artefact. No real reason, it just fitted my plot bunny. But as for other things that appear for the first time in PoA, there's Trelawney's room and its contents, the Firebolt, the Sneakoscope, Crookshanks, Pig the owl, Hogsmeade and its various shops, the Marauders' Map. I can't think of any artefacty things, but I suppose it would be a very small reference. Will have to keep my eyes open when next looking through!

though why Voldemort would want to use a live snake for this purpose is beyond me
Not the sharpest tool at all times, our Voldie. It's the Evil Overlord phenomenon again!

[dharmavati.livejournal.com]

Maybe it's the Quidditch Cup, since that's the first time they win it... no, that probably isn't right. Though talk about hiding it in plain sight! And it would make all the obsessing over Quidditch turn out to be more important than they ever realised - imagine how Ron would love saying 'told you so!' to Hermione.

Hehe. That would be funny and rather ingenious. It would also make the fact of Snape keeping the Cup for 7 years pre-PS/SS very interesting.

[a-t-rain.livejournal.com]

Heh. I love the Quidditch cup theory.

The Marauder's Map (or anyway, the parchment it's written on) is an intriguing possibility. Never trust anything that can think for itself if you can't see where it keeps its brain, after all :)

[b2wm.livejournal.com]

Bugger, now I wish I could find that fic again, (I think it's Cartographer's Craft by copperbadge,) but it was a very interesting use of the Marauder's Map, concerning its creation and the consequences for the makers... Not canon, but a fun interpretation, certainly.

[dbassassin.livejournal.com]

Fab theory. It makes total sense and has the kind of weird orderliness that JKR seems to like.

I agree that the unknown item is likely to be something we've already seen. And as to it being something of either Gryffindor or Ravenclaw's, I think it's most likely going to be something of Ravenclaw's. Unless Dumbledore was wrong about nothing else of Gryffindor's having survived or about Voldy never getting his hands on the sword. Seeing as the extant artifacts of the other three founders each have an obvious mark linking them to their original owner, perhaps we should be re-reading PoA to look for any mention of eagles.

[lazy-neutrino.livejournal.com]

What about the Goblet of Fire? I know that's book four, not three, but what do we know about it?

[ani-bester.livejournal.com]

*snerk* Malfoy's cane? or is that jsut a movie prop, I can never remember.

What about Voldemort's wand?
I mean it's already one of those, WTF, how did Peter hide that for 13 years items, and if Voldemort keeps Nagini close to him maybe he keeps another part of his soul close to him, and then maybe there's actually some other reason why Harry and Tom's wands should be twins. I guess that was book 4 too.

Gotta be the ice cream guy then, he was book 3 right? Voldemort put his soul into ice cream, there we go ^^;;;

[crazysexy-cool.livejournal.com]

Hmm, I sort of like thinking that it might be one of the portraits - how, though, I wouldn't know.

[snorkackcatcher]

Well, I just took a look at the description of Trelawney's room in PoA, and she does have a large copper kettle. Maybe it's the Mystic Kettle of Nackledirk and once belonged to Rowena Ravenclaw. :)

The fact that Voldemort particularly wanted the DADA position suggests that there was something connected with it he wanted - but the contents of the office seem to change with each occupant, so I'm not sure what unless it's the room irself. The only goblet I can think of in PoA is the one Snape brings the Wolfsbane Potion in?

Maybe it's the Special Award from the trophy cabinet he wanted back. ;)

The curious thing about that interview was that JKR said she expected careful readers to spot "at least one" of the Horcruxes within a week. Everybody seems to have ticked off the locket now, but the "at least" suggests that we should be able to spot another one reasonably easily.

Of course, Dumbledore doesn't have to have got it exactly right. One plot bunny I had was the idea that one of them was a living creature might be semi-correct, but not Nagint - I had Bella in mind, the woman who claims to be his most devoted servant, the one who said that the Dark Lord had at one time trusted her with his 'most precious ...', the one he made a point of taking with him at the end of OotP. Although that probably just means that she was the one sent to put (what turned out to be the fake) Horcrux in the cave. It could be interesting in either case though if she finally takes on board Harry's comment about Voldemort only being a half-blood - I do wonder if that's going to play in book 7 somehow.

[a-t-rain.livejournal.com]

Ooh, good catch with the "at least one" quote. Now I'm intrigued.

Although that probably just means that she was the one sent to put (what turned out to be the fake) Horcrux in the cave.

Yeah, I'm voting for that interpretation, because it's occurred to me that it would have been quite easy for Regulus to pickpocket his cousin and switch the lockets before she placed the Horcrux in the cave, which would be the most simple and elegant answer to the inevitable "How did he get to the Horcrux? Did he take Kreacher with him? Who drank the potion, and why did he replace it afterwards?" questions.

[dbassassin.livejournal.com]

Interesting idea. After all, he did entrust one of them (the diary) to Malfoy. Perhaps he entrusted others to his most devoted followers. Hmm. Wonder if Snape has one stashed away somewhere?

One thing I thought of as a possibility for the Gryffindor/Ravenclaw artifact is the Sorting Hat itself. In one of its songs, the Hat indicates that it used to belong to Gryffindor. But then, we're back to the same access problem as with the sword; the Hat doesn't leave the Headmaster's office except for the Sorting. But then, the whole issue of other founders Horcruxes could be just another red herring ...

[snorkackcatcher]

Yup, I can't see Regulus ever having been in that cave. The note reads like someone who's done something unexpected beforehand.

As for Trelawney though ... while I was flipping through HBP to find the text of the note (red herring - the similarity I thought I remembered was to The Glass Mountain, not the book), I did notice Harry's dream near the end (dream sequences being something I almost invariably skip past, but I suppose this one might be a clue). In this, he's been thinking hard about where to find the missing Horcrux objects and starts dreaming about them, and dreams that Dumbledore offers him a rope ladder.

Huh? The only one of those I can remember is the one that leads up to Sybill's tower, which suggests interesting things about what may be in Harry's subconscious when taken in conjunction with that interview remark about him knowing more than he realises. Maybe there's more to Dumbledore wanting Sybill to stay at the castle than just the danger to her as the prophecy maker. :)

[a-t-rain.livejournal.com]

I thought the ladder up to Sybill's tower was made from silver, not rope? Interesting catch, though ... Jacob's Ladder imagery, maybe? Not that that suggests anything in particular...

[snorkackcatcher]

I thought the ladder up to Sybill's tower was made from silver, not rope?

Just checked - you're right, in fact it's described in GoF as a 'stepladder'. Odd that, I've always missed that and pictured it as being a rope ladder (possibly because of the way it was said in PoA to drop to Harry's feet). Oh well.

And yes, it is slightly worrying that (a) the books happen to be on my desk for quick reference in cases like this (although there's so much other random stuff on my desk, maybe that's not too bad) and (b) that I knew whete to look to check quickly. :)

[yma2.livejournal.com]

OOOh! NICE explenation! That question has also been puzzling me for ages. Yeah... that's nice, elegent and very possible. It sounds much more like what Regulus might do.

[(Anonymous)]

Number seven wasn't made, as far as I read the HBP. Voldemort was going to make it after killing Harry. That makes five objects - and we have Nagini, the ring, the diary and the locket.

But more interestingly - did Harry acquire some of Voldemort's soul? Remember in CoS when Dumbledore says something along the lines of 'I believe Lord Voldemort transferred some of his powers to you the night he tried to kill you. That is why you can speak Parseltongue. That's why the hat wanted to put you in Slytheirn.' For, after all, if Harry does have some of Voldemort's soul, and Voldemort is the Heir of Slytherin, then the hat would want to put him there. And that's why Harry and Voldemort have such a close mental connection. And maybe - that's why the last word in Book 7 is 'scar' ...

Easleyweasley

[a-t-rain.livejournal.com]

Well, I'm having a hard time seeing how that theory could end in any other way than Harry's death, and honestly, I don't see JKR going there. But you could be right.

[persephone-kore.livejournal.com]

Well, if you go with the scar theory, I suppose we have the entertaining prospect of destroying the last Horcrux via laser surgery.

[(Anonymous)]

I read the information in HBP differently. It seemed to me that at the precise time Voldemort tried to kill Harry, he had six Horcruxes - the diary, the ring, the locket, Hufflepuff's cup, something of Gryffindor's or Ravenclaw's, and the soul inside his body. He had yet to make his final Horcrux (or sixth, if you don't count his body as a Horcrux) at that time. Dumbledore said that Voldemort reserved making a Horcrux for very special deaths. It's apparent he made the ring after killing his father and the diary after finally killing a Muggle-born with the basilisk. So, he reserved his final Horcrux for the death of his mortal enemy. Perhaps the Horcrux would be especially powerful.

Obviously, Harry's murder didn't go as planned. Voldemort was unable to make a Horcrux from that soul-splitting exercise. So, when he was regenerated, to his knowledge, he only had six Horcruxes. As I understand it, the final Horcrux - Nagini the snake - was made in the beginning of GoF, with the death of Frank the gardner. It was made out of the sheer convenience of the murder and to underline Voldemort's Heir of Slytherin obsession.

So all 7 Horcruxes have been made. I highly doubt that Voldemort would go on with his plans without posessing his magical number of Horcruxes. According to your situation, Voldemort probably wouldn't know that a bit of his soul was in Harry. By those circumstances, he would have made another, still leaving Harry with another Horcrux to destroybesides the one in his own body. I think we have to rely on Dumbledore's beliefs above everything else (that the Horcruxes are the diary, the ring, the cup, the snake, and something of Ravenclaw's or Gryffindor's) because without them, we have nothing to go on but speculation.

On a completely different track, I'm really interested in which murder corresponds with the forming of which Horcrux. (The Horcruxes besides the ring, the diary, and Nagini, of course.)

[krisomniac.livejournal.com]

I think that (3) is the red herring. Or at least, it's the horcrux whose literal interpretation (Prince, anyone?) is going to be absolutely skew from the truth. Personally, I enjoy the Harry-as-an-accidental-horcrux theory at the moment, but no doubt that'll change about seven times before book seven comes out.

Actually, I hadn't noticed the one-horcrux-per-book (almost) pattern. That's kind of interesting. Makes me wonder what other mundane objects were thrown into the mix during books three. Perhaps there is something hidden at hogwarts... Or in Hogsmeade - which we visited for the first time in that book.

(7) I assume you mean Hufflepuff's cup?

[rosefyre.livejournal.com]

Wow, I know I'm commenting late, but I'm also reading late.

And when I think PoA, the first object that comes to mind, which no one has mentioned yet, is the time turner.

Unlikely, I know, but...

Also, book three? Peter. Peter's hand? Probably not, since the hand itself is from the fourth book, but it could be something to do with Peter.