(no subject)

[a_t_rain]

My Big List O' Things I Can't Stand About Remus / Tonks (at least in some writers' hands). Inspired by lupinslittlesis, who is just generally cool, despite being on the opposite side of this particular debate.



Disclaimer: This is my OTP an' all. I not only like this ship, I want them to have a happy marriage and lots of healthy kids, and what's more, I think JKR agrees with me, and will go on thinking so until she states otherwise. That said, here are my least favorite cliches, shipping arguments, and whatnot.

1) ADD!Kindergartener!Tonks. She. Is. An. Auror. Some people need to got back and read the "Career Advice" chapter of OotP, not to mention every scene where we've seen Tonks actually on duty.

2) Humorless!Drone!Remus. Two words: Boggart Snape. 'Nuff said.

3) The nicknames "Nymphie" and "Wolfie." Just ... no.

4) The pop-psychology shipping justification: "He needs to laugh, and she needs to be grounded." First off -- Auror. Unlikely that she needs anything of the sort. Secondly, after HBP, I'd be willing to believe that she needs to laugh, and he needs to be grounded, but the other way 'round just plain doesn't jibe with everything we've learned.

5) OMG they're both shape-shifters!!! True Love 4-ever! So are Crabbe and Goyle if you give them enough Polyjuice Potion. So what?

6) The sheer, unimaginative proliferation of HBP-era angstfic. I realize that I'm on shaky ground here, since "On the Joyous Science" hit most of the key canon moments in HBP, but for goodness' sake, can't somebody write something that isn't about The Conversation after the hospital wing scene and / or the first million rejections? Please?

7) Girly!ShoeShopping!Tonks. Where in the world are people getting this one from?

8) NobodyElseHasEverLovedMe!Remus. Um, parents. WPP. Canon.

Comments

[mafdet.livejournal.com]

Big, fat, juicy WORD to all you said. Especially #1 and #2. Folks: Auror. Marauder. Get it?

"Nymphie" and "Wolfie" are just ecch. I like "Dora" for Tonks but only if her parents and Remus use it. (Do her parents call her Tonks, I wonder? I bet Andromeda insists on addressing her as "Nympha-Dora!") As for Remus, he's Remus to his loved ones, friends and colleagues and Mr. Lupin to everyone else. Not Wolfie, and certainly not Remy, Remmy and suchlike.

[a-t-rain.livejournal.com]

I like "Dora" for Tonks but only if her parents and Remus use it.

Yeah, I have to own up to having a soft spot for "Dora" -- entirely fernwithy's fault, of course. But I don't think she'd let him get away with it except in very private moments.

[bluejeanphoenix.livejournal.com]

I have the same argument for this as I did for Sirius/Remus:

they already HAVE nicknames. He's not "remmy," he's freakin' MOONY!

:rollseyes:

(Besides, he's about as gay as a pink Doberman. :) )

[gunderpants.livejournal.com]

You've now spawned a bad cross-gender Crabbe/Goyle fic. I hope you sleep tonight, because I certainly won't.

[a-t-rain.livejournal.com]

I thought JKR spawned all the bad cross-gender Crabbe / Goyle fics one can reasonably imagine? I don't think you can blame me for this one...

[gunderpants.livejournal.com]

But you reinforced it.

Actually, I think I promised LLS that I would write my reasons for disliking R/T. Will go do that now.

If anything, the post-HBP fic is a change from that fucking dire shit set after OotP, where Remus and Tonks would sit around the kitchen table like in some bad Ken Loach film, and he declares his feelings for her manlyly. Not that my fics are any different from that, of course.

[a-t-rain.livejournal.com]

Eh, maybe my memory is failing me (so help me, I'm almost thirty and I'm scared) but I could swear there were a lot fewer cliches before we were canon. :: blinks and realizes that was less than two months ago, but it seems like a different world, all the same ::

[gunderpants.livejournal.com]

Really? I disagree: I'd say that the cliches were running free in the meadows prior to HBP. If anything, that killed a lot of the irritating fics that were pretty much the adult equivalents of 'truth or dare' fluffy shit.

[mafdet.livejournal.com]

The cliches that I remember running free in the meadows were Airhead Tonks meets Stuffed-Shirt Remus. The very moment someone finished OOtP and thought "Remus/Tonks! Now there's a KEWL ship!" someone else thought "I'll write Tonks as a retarded child on a sugar high and Remus as a boring pedant."

If only writers would remember that Tonks is an Auror and Remus was a Marauder that would kill off so much of the crapfic.

[gunderpants.livejournal.com]

Word to the pepsi max. I think you described 900 fics that I read when I entered fandom.

[heartsncraftslb.livejournal.com]

Heh, indeed. I don't know, any ideas for non-angsty HBP fics for these two? Tonks seems to be pretty down (though I've read a few, "Joyous Science" being one, and a couple of Ficathon entries, that were not-too-angsty) and Remus is off on the World's Worst Playdate with Fenrir Greyback, so it doesn't seem to be too...non-angsty. If that isn't a word, I've used it twice with no dictionary to back me up.

As for the rest of the list -- OMG, sister, work it. There are quite a few items on that list that have hit my own pet peeves for these two. Good Godric, folks, they're multifaceted characters; delve deeper and don't give them the first characteristics that come to mind. (random a/n with no caps, in salute to bad fanfic writers everywhere: it also seems to me that this isn't the sort of OTP one can successfully write or analyze if one is thirteen, so there ya go)

Urgh, slightly dopey on cold remedies so if this makes no sense, blame it on the DayQuil. Or, maybe I am just ditzy to begin with... ;)

- LB

PS - I hath friended thee, hope you don't mind...After the Job Search post, I couldn't resist. GL with the Bullshit Paragraph.

[a-t-rain.livejournal.com]

don't know, any ideas for non-angsty HBP fics for these two? Tonks seems to be pretty down (though I've read a few, "Joyous Science" being one, and a couple of Ficathon entries, that were not-too-angsty) and Remus is off on the World's Worst Playdate with Fenrir Greyback, so it doesn't seem to be too...non-angsty.

Yeah, you're right, I can't very well blame people when angst is, in fact, canon. And the downside of knowing exactly how your pairing came about is that there's no room for alternate takes ... I don't know, I guess I'd just like to see more post-HBP fic, or pre-HBP fic if you think there was something going on between the two of them during OotP.

I hath friended thee...

:: flinches :: I have. Thou hast. He, she, or it hath. (Sorry, don't mind me, I'm slightly drunk at the moment and cannot resist random pedantry.) But yeah, new friends are always welcome :)

[heartsncraftslb.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the correction, LOL -- I can conjugate in French but not in Olde English. Gracias. Or, rather, merci.

[neigedens.livejournal.com]

I agree with all, especially and particularly #3. In fact, I think pointless nicknames in general need to die. (I let people call me "Breezy" until about sixth grade, I have no clue why.)

OMG they're both shape-shifters!!! True Love 4-ever! So are Crabbe and Goyle if you give them enough Polyjuice Potion. So what?

True dat. I mean, being a Metamorphamagus is cool because you can change you hair color and make your boobs as big as Pamela Anderson's (if it were me I'd like to see what it's like, just for one day), while being a werewolf is painful, physically debilitating, and even the time you are actually a wolf can't be that enjoyable, since you have that whole "kill all humans" thing going on. I fail to see the similarities there.

[a-t-rain.livejournal.com]

I mean, being a Metamorphamagus is cool because you can change you hair color and make your boobs as big as Pamela Anderson's ...

Although on the other hand, you probably get all manner of annoying guys pestering you to change your hair color and make your boobs as big as Pamela Anderson's, so I don't know if it's purely cool. I'm also thinking that if it's normal for Metamorphmagus powers to come and go with your state of mind -- as HBP certainly suggests -- it would really suck having the entire world know when you're depressed, and having no good way to conceal it.

[kikei.livejournal.com]

True dat. I mean, being a Metamorphamagus is cool because you can change you hair color and make your boobs as big as Pamela Anderson's (if it were me I'd like to see what it's like, just for one day), while being a werewolf is painful, physically debilitating, and even the time you are actually a wolf can't be that enjoyable, since you have that whole "kill all humans" thing going on. I fail to see the similarities there.

well, the thing is, I'm pretty sure that someone like Tonks may not exactly like the attention guys give her because all they want to see if she can have boobs like Pamela Anderson or basically, cater to their wildest fantasies. If anything, I'd say that yes, being a metamorphmagus is cool but then you get a crapload of issues along with it because a) people don't trust you since you could be almost anybody (unless you adopt a specific form most of the time - for Tonks, the pink hair and such I assume is what she feels most comfortable in) b) most people relationship-wise would only be in it for the quirks. In that aspect, I'd probably see Remus as being different because while he's not a saint, I'd think he wouldn't care too much what she looked like.

... of course, I'm basically jumping up at that because I have a fic on the same issue, lol.

-Kiks

[neigedens.livejournal.com]

I'd probably see Remus as being different because while he's not a saint, I'd think he wouldn't care too much what she looked like.

Right. In fact, I can't see Tonks putting up with appeals to change her appearance from anyone about any aspect (unless it something Auror-related, I suppose), whether it's her hair or her breasts or anything like that. It sounds cliched, but it seems like an issue of respecting yourself (which is why those theories that Remus would have her change into Sirius are...well, do I really have to explain why that's sick and wrong?)

[a-t-rain.livejournal.com]

... which is why those theories that Remus would have her change into Sirius are... well, do I really have to explain why that's sick and wrong?

Not here you don't :) I was tempted to include that one in the list, except I don't really consider it an R/T cliche at all, more of a LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR JKR one.

[lls-mutant.livejournal.com]

::grin:: Gee, why would ANY of these ever bother any sane person? Especially the shapeshifter one?[/sarcasm]

The shapeshifter argument has always baffled me, just like certain R/S arguments baffle me. If a R/T shipper wants to argue that Remus and Tonks are compatible for personality reasons a. b. and c., cool. But the shapeshifter thing... being a Metamorphamagus seems like it's pretty cool, and being a werewolf seems like it's a rather nice analogy to having MS or HIV. I just don't get the connection. (Goes up there with "Remus turns into a wolf and Sirius turns into a dog! How cute!") SO glad to see that one on your list! :)

And people writing Nymphie and Wolfie can join those writing Remy and Siri as we string them all up by their toenails. Whoohoo!

Anyway, thanks :) You just made my night!

[a-t-rain.livejournal.com]

You're welcome! Thanks for posting the original list, BTW!

[lls-mutant.livejournal.com]

Oh, anytime :) I'm turning bitter in my old age here. Venting is definitely fun!

[sparkly-stuff.livejournal.com]

Oh, this list is so true!

1) ADD!Kindergartener!Tonks. She. Is. An. Auror. Some people need to got back and read the "Career Advice" chapter of OotP, not to mention every scene where we've seen Tonks actually on duty.
2) Humorless!Drone!Remus. Two words: Boggart Snape. 'Nuff said.
Those are my top two R/T pet peeves! Everyone is so convinced that Tonks is this helpless immature cheerleader, that when she acts serious and non-perky in HBP they call her OOC. No, idiots. Read the books again. And Humorless!Remus--if Remus is humorless, then what is Snape? Both Tonks and Remus have so many facets to their personalities, but readers are lazy and only want to see their superficial qualities.

5) OMG they're both shape-shifters!!! True Love 4-ever! So are Crabbe and Goyle if you give them enough Polyjuice Potion. So what?
I have to admit I do see their shape-shiftingness as something they do have in common with each other more so than with others. But I only see it as something they can have a conversation about. It's definitely NOT a reason for shipping them together, nor should it be considered a basis for their relationship.

6) The sheer, unimaginative proliferation of HBP-era angstfic...can't somebody write something that isn't about The Conversation after the hospital wing scene and / or the first million rejections? Please?
AMEN! I've been complaining about this since, uh, a week after HBP came out. SO SO SICK OF ANGSTFIC. And yet the general feeling I've gotten from the fandom is, if an R/T fic isn't angst-filled, it's not canon compliant. BULLSHIT. I can't say too much, because I haven't posted any R/T post-HBP (with the exception of co-writing this) but I'm working on it. I refuse to write angsty R/T.

[almostsophie.livejournal.com]

I'm so happy not to be the only one annoyed by these. In a lot of fic characters that should be real, living, breathing people are reduced to caricatures. That's the biggest problem for me.

I came here via theregoesyamum. Hope you don't mind me friending you.

[a-t-rain.livejournal.com]

Sure! Friends are always good!

[the-prof.livejournal.com]

Oh, didn't you know? Wild hair colors and band t-shirts equal brainless twit, and no teacher in history has ever had a personality, much less a sense of humor. That's why R/T are perfect for each other.

[mafdet.livejournal.com]

Teachers have no personality, no sense of humor, and, much like Barbie and Ken, no genitals.

Growing up with a teacher for a mum pretty much disavowed me of the idea that teachers have no life outside the classroom. However, I don't know what I would have done if I had caught any of my teachers having at it as much as fanon Snape does in many stories. *g*

[hannahmarder.livejournal.com]

The nicknames "Nymphie" and "Wolfie."
Thank goodness for the 'back' button. Those will have to join 'Mione' 'Siri' on my list of intolerable nicknames.

The sheer, unimaginative proliferation of HBP-era angstfic.
In some ways, it might be better for your OTP not to be made canon, just to avoid this fate. I tend to avoid any fics where romance is the main or even secondary focus unless it is by an author I know is good or it is recommended. So far I've avoided hyperangsty post-HBP R/T though I've seen plenty of summaries for it, but I can't imagine it's much fun to read in general.

[a-t-rain.livejournal.com]

In some ways, it might be better for your OTP not to be made canon, just to avoid this fate.

I'd be almost tempted to agree, except that after two years of being told that Remus is obviously gay and anybody who reads him any other way is delusional, I have to say that vindication is sweet.

I tend to avoid any fics where romance is the main or even secondary focus unless it is by an author I know is good or it is recommended.

So do I, usually -- but I think I've been ODing on this pairing since HBP, and it's starting to show :)

[mafdet.livejournal.com]

after two years of being told that Remus is obviously gay and anybody who reads him any other way is delusional, I have to say that vindication is sweet.


Oh HELL yes. Though there are those who have their fingers stuck firmly in their ears lalala'ing still. But I still feel vindicated. (I also feel vindicated over R/Hr but the wank was so very colossal and batshit that I wonder if it was worth it.)

[lea-hazel.livejournal.com]

3) The nicknames "Nymphie" and "Wolfie." Just ... no.

May I confess? It drives me crazy when fics call Tonks anything but Tonks. I mean, the first thing we learn about her is that she hates her first name. Just because you like it, does not give you an excuse to twist canon around and make poor Tonks into someone she's not.

(I also have a hard time referring to Lupin as Remus, but that's probably just the Harry POV talking.)

[winding_path]

I'll second pretty much everything on the list.

And I'll confess to being very confused about #7. I mean, presumably Tonks has to go buy shoes, don't we all, but I don't really want to read about it. (I personally have miserably hard to fit feet, and so there's a very real chance that my boggart would be a shoe salesman.)

[emmyaward.livejournal.com]

I am also here from theregoesyamum, and would pretty much like to say wordy mcword to each of these things, especially #1, 2, and 3. Tonks of course is not a airheaded person, despite her pink hair and easy-going nature. And Remus most definitely has a sense of humour. Remus in fact has a brilliant sense of humour; for example, in PoA he shoots gum up Peeves's nose. That is not really the action of a man who lacks a humorous bent, is it now?

I dislike Remus/Tonks that is really all about Sirius, but that comes from my dislike for Remus/Sirius. Also, I'm not a big fan of 'Dora'. Actually, it's not that I don't like Remus using it (occasionally), it's more that I don't like it used in the narrative. I'd much rather prefer 'Tonks' in the narrative, as is used by JKR and most of the characters in the book. It gels better for me.

7) Girly!ShoeShopping!Tonks. Where in the world are people getting this one from?

Have to say this one both has me confused and amused. Tonks is most emphatically not a girly girl. She wears t-shirts and jeans, and frankly, that's just the way I like her. It works well for her. And actually, I can't say I care much about Tonks's shoes. I always picture her in Docs anyway.