(no subject)

[a_t_rain]

So, what does everybody think Snape's Patronus is? Answers that amuse me may get used in Mordant.

Also, do you think Patroni can talk? If not, how the heck does the Order use them to communicate? I don't think the spelling-out-words-in-the-air method I used in "On the Joyous Science" would work for a lengthy message...

:: kicks self because I have just written a long and snarky firechat between Sirius and Snape on the night of the DoM battle, and then realized that duh, Dumbledore specifically said that isn't how Snape got in touch. Do not want to cut this bit of dialogue, so all suggestions are welcome.

Comments

[tunxeh.livejournal.com]

A raven?

[a-t-rain.livejournal.com]

Hmm, that's interesting. Why a raven?

:: tries to suppress random image of Snape's Patronus sitting on a pallid bust of Pallas, croaking "Nevermore! Nevermore!" :: Actually, something like that would probably fit right in at Grimmauld Place, wouldn't it?

[tabby-abby.livejournal.com]

A bat!! He's a vampire, duh! :)

Is Sirius the only who's snarky? Because if Snape is snarky too, you could have it be a dream scene (if that's not too much like a soap opera or fandom cliche).

[a-t-rain.livejournal.com]

No, it's the scene where Snape alerts the rest of the Order that Harry's gone to the DoM, so it has to be quite real.

[mafdet.livejournal.com]

A vulture. (I love vultures, btw. Without them we'd be knee-deep in roadkill.)

[a-t-rain.livejournal.com]

Ooh, I like that idea, too! I can totally see Snape as a vulture. (Of course, there's the little problem that most Patroni seem to represent somebody else, but I'm not sure this is consistent across the board.)

[captainjames.livejournal.com]

Re: Snape's Patronus
I'll be watching this entry to read what people think about this (read: James is clueless and doesn't have the faintest idea).

Re: Deleting a scene you like
I find it very hard to get rid of anything I've written if it's longer than a couple of hundred words long, even if I don't liek it much. Usually I find a way to rewrite it to fit the story so that I can keep it, and sometimes I save it in another document to look at later and see if it inspires another story :).

[gunderpants.livejournal.com]

His patronus is a wereflamingo.

[a-t-rain.livejournal.com]

Well, duh. Why didn't I see it before?

[gioiamia.livejournal.com]

I'll vote with the raven or vulture. Or a hawk. I always imagined Snape with some sinister looking bird of prey. Something startlingly grim for an object as joyous as a patronus.

As for the communication, I always imagined that when a patronus is created with joyful thoughts in a dementor attack, it is driving the dementor away by projecting those joyful feelings and memories. So if it's being used to deliver messages, might it somehow telephatically project the thoughts/messages of its creator to the recipient?

[a-t-rain.livejournal.com]

Could be, but telepathy isn't much fun to write from the perspective of a third-party observer, so I'm not quite sure it'll work for this story. Ravens are starting to look better and better. (I looked them up, and they can indeed talk. Yay.)

[heartsncraftslb.livejournal.com]

I think it should be a werewolf. That'd be the height of irony. Weak, indeed, O Master of Self-Loathing. (Plus, all those RL/SS smutfic writers would be over the moon, pun most decidedly not intended, in ANY sense.)

Seriously, though, JKR's said that Snape's Patronus and his boggart will both be revealed, and that their forms are important. I was thinking of a few ideas, many of which were downright stupid (the fluffy kitten with a bow around its neck, just because I am a silly sadist, and the Crumple-Horned Snorkack, whee), but perhaps a thestral? Think of the added security: It's a Patronus that not everyone can see. ;)

As for Patronus communications, I wonder if they carry an echo of the message. (I've just sparked my very own plot bunny. Don't mind me.) Maybe they "speak", with the sender's voice echoing to the intended recipient(s); it might be a trick of Dumbledore's own invention. Eh, maybe.

Defunct firechat: Keep it and screw canon? (No, wait, that's the Harmonians' job.) Maybe a variation on the two-way mirror? One at Hogwarts, one at Headquarters? That way, you can keep Sirius and Snape sniping at one another, which is always fun.

Just a few thoughts...Take 'em or leave 'em. ;) Looking forward to reading the next installment of Mordant, as it's been great fun thus far. - LB

[a-t-rain.livejournal.com]

Seriously, though, JKR's said that Snape's Patronus and his boggart will both be revealed, and that their forms are important.

Yeah, I know. That's precisely what worries me; none of the forms I have in mind are particularly Symbolic or Revealing, so in a sense, they're just as non-canon as a firechat would be.

I like the idea of dodging the entire question by using some variant on the two-way mirror, though I do think JKR's answer to the FAQ poll question implies that the Order's usual mode of communication is by Patronus. (Which raises the question -- what does Mrs. Figg do?)

[moonys-autumn.livejournal.com]

I think maybe you can just sort of hear a patronus in your mind.

[bribitribbit.livejournal.com]

A bat.

Oh, yes, the easy-out answer.

But my first thought was, for some strange reason, a gorrilla.

[sparkly-stuff.livejournal.com]

Snape's Patronus...a cow. Or something equally stubborn and unimpressive. Oh no wait, that would probably be MY patronus. Moooo!

Also, do you think Patroni can talk? If not, how the heck does the Order use them to communicate?
That's what I've always wanted to know! JKR made it sound like it's so obvious, but really I don't get it. We never see the Patronii (Patronuses?) speak or make any kind of noise in canon. I guess you just hear them in your head, like moonys_autumn suggested. But then how do you send a message? Do you think the message in your head and then do the Patronus charm? JKR needs to explain this better. And this comment is like, completely unhelpful.

[lareinenoire.livejournal.com]

Hmm...Snape's Patronus. I'd have to go with those people offering up a raven. Though a bat sounds oddly amusing. ::squelches plotbunny involving Batman!Snape:: I think a Patronus is either something that's very like you, or something that's important to you. Which leads me to...depressingly little, actually.

Although...might Snape's Patronus be a phoenix? Of all the odd ironies?

As for how Snape got in touch with Sirius, my only other thought is that maybe he stole Harry's two-way mirror, which makes very little sense.

[jesspallas.livejournal.com]

I'd have to agree with raven - as soon as I saw it said, I thought "perfect!"

As for how they communicate - well, I reckon they must speak for the sender, probably sending a set message (since Tonks didn't know that Snape and not Hagrid had got her message), but for the benefit of you keeping your conversation (which I would like to read), they could probably interact conversationally as a conduit for the sender too. Hey why not have the patronus send a message that says "switch your mirror on" or some such so that face to face contact can begin? :)

[snorkackcatcher]

If Snape's Patronus (and Boggart) would give too much away, and it (usually) represents a protector, that gives me the idea that it might be something that strongly suggests either Dumbledore or Voldemort (depending on where you think his loyalties really lie). For Voldy a snake seems appropriate, and it would be amusing having it hissing away at them all. For Albus there's the obvious phoenix, or maybe something wise and beardy looking - um, perhaps a buffalo(!), or one of those monkeys that have white haired faces and that I can't remember the name of right now (capucins? colobus?).

As fot the conversation between Snape and Sirius, I'd just revise it to use talking mirrors (which JKR was also being cagey about in the interview). After all, Patronuses aren't the only form of communication they use - Dumbledore gets letters/messages delivered by carrier phoenix on more than one occasion.

[sigune.livejournal.com]

My fancy is that Snape's Patronus is a unicorn. My reasoning is, of course, dead serious (it's me, I'm beyond help). In Christian imagery, the unicorn stands for Christ. For Catholic!Snape, Christ is his saviour, so his Patronus might just assume that shape.

If that's too earnest, I draw your attention to the fact that a unicorn Patronus is the dream of every Sue, and the white and pure creature is in everything entirely unlike Snape, who might in fact be rather embarrassed by the thing. I'm afraid a little irony is the best I can do...

(Please, people, ravens and bats are *so* what everyone expects... Though the vulture certainly has its merits, LOL.)

[norisis.livejournal.com]

I've been wondering about communication between Order members, myself, though I haven't made much head-way into that, to be honest.

But regarding the night of the DoM battle - Snape would have had to send his Patronus from Hogwarts all the way to Grimmauld Place and that seems like a long distance for a Patronus to travel?

[lazy-neutrino.livejournal.com]

I always thought his Boggart would be James. (I don't think Snape is mature enough to realise that he is his own Boggart). I'd like his Patronus to be a phoenix, but that would give so much away.

[a-t-rain.livejournal.com]

I don't think Snape is mature enough to realise that he is his own Boggart...

Now THAT is an interesting idea, and leads to a whole bunch of new questions: Can a boggart change into the form of something you don't KNOW you're afraid of? Is it possible for your patronus to take a specific form BEFORE you know who or what that form represents? (The fact that Harry produces a corporeal Patronus before Lupin tells him his father's Animagus form was a stag suggests as much.) If so, does the form of a Patronus have any power to predict the future?

Questions, questions...

[origamist.livejournal.com]

If you want to leave the snarky dialogue in, you can either have a conversation by Patroni, portraits, another remote-communication device (maybe they really do have Instant Message books), or have Snape go to Grimmauld Place in person, by Apparating or flying. (It would be funny if he went looking for Harry, saw the missing Thestrals, realized that Harry had gone after Sirius, and took another one to Grimmauld Place.) (I suppose that he could also take the Knight Bus. I can't see why, but he could.)

[a-t-rain.livejournal.com]

... another remote-communication device (maybe they really do have Instant Message books ...

OK, I've just had another big DUH! moment, since I just remembered that I invented the wizarding equivalent of a cell phone for this very fic, and established that Tonks and Kingsley have them. No reason why Snape can't have one as well.

I swear, I don't know where my head is these days.

[dolorous-ett.livejournal.com]

I've been thinking about this, and judging by what we know about him, Snape's Patronus should be shabby and slightly mean. A mangy Scottie dog perhaps - or a billious-looking billy goat or a sheep with a squint.

If you're feeling more charitable, you could give him one of those animals that's charming and just slightly ludicrous - a penguin, an alpaca or (saving your icon's presence) a kangaroo.

Of if you feel none of the above has sufficient gravitas, how about a camel? Nothing has more gravitas than a camel.

[hannahmarder.livejournal.com]

There's probably not much I can add, but it's an interesting set of questions so I'll answer anyway.

For Snape's Patronus, let's go for the classic 'animal that represents something protective and reassuring to the caster' version. What or whom would Snape associate with safety? I would say Dumbledore - who saved him from himself - and Hogwarts, his literal place of safety (I believe he is employed there for his own good, rather than any inclination to teach). Since Dumbledore and Hogwarts are closely associated (as shown by his burial at the school), I would go for something that represents the school, and also has a fair bit of comedic value too. So Snape's Patronus is... a big, fat bristly pig.

For the conversation, go for a talking Patronus that can alert the member to check a two way mirror, as others have already suggested. You must preserve the sarky conversation at all costs!

[joely-jo.livejournal.com]

Ooh, I like this discussion! I reckon Snape's patronus is a spider... 'Spinner's End'? Potentially very harmful, and therefore seemingly protective, but actually kills only for food or defence (but again, that depends if you think he's Good Snape or Bad Snape).

[a-t-rain.livejournal.com]

I have honestly got no idea where Snape's loyalties lie, and I'm not willing to commit to any answer until JKR gives us the definitive one.

[krisomniac.livejournal.com]

I think it would be HILARIOUS if Snape's patronus was a kitten or a bunny. Or a chick. Or something equally cute and furry (I know chicks have no fur. shuttup. :D )

As for communication, you make a good point. How's this: I know patroni are not really "solid" per se, but mightn't they be able to carry notes? Or perhaps communication is more rudimentary than that: a preset series of signals for things like "go ahead" "danger" and "help me". From what we saw in OOtP, the phoenix feather popped in as a warning, and everyone knew immediately what it meant.

[cmwinters.livejournal.com]

He'd *kill* himself.

[a-t-rain.livejournal.com]

It would be revealing, all right, but it would be all wrong for my!Snape, since he didn't even like Lily and in fact made her pay quite nastily for coming to his defense in the Pensieve scene.

And no, we haven't seen any Patroni that take the shape of a person, plant, or inanimate object -- they are all animals.

[ilirien.livejournal.com]

Can't help you with the dialogue, but it seems to me that Snape's Patronus would reflect something of his own qualities...a possum, maybe? ; )

Something that knows how to hide in plain sight, in any case.

[tomaterialize.livejournal.com]

I have him down for a stoat in my fan-fic. But that's just for laughs.

[cmwinters.livejournal.com]

I think his original Patronus was a King Cobra, and I think his current one is a Phoenix.