a_t_rain: (Default)
[personal profile] a_t_rain
Random observations:

-- Elk look amazingly like kangaroos when they lie down. It's a bit eerie.

-- If you start a journey with exactly enough luggage to fit into your backpack, within one week it will have expanded by 50% EVEN IF YOU HAVEN'T BOUGHT ANYTHING. I don't understand how this works, and I suspect it blatantly defies the laws of physics.

-- I'm reading The Lord of the Rings, finally. (I'll likely end up teaching it next semester, and in any case the omnibus edition is a good book to bring on a cross-country train trip.) It's not a bad story, really, and it's fun catching all the allusions to Anglo-Saxon lit, but is it just me or do none of the characters except Sam and maybe Boromir have actual personalities? (I realize he was writing an epic, and most people don't read epics for the characterization, but still...)

Date: 2006-05-16 04:49 pm (UTC)
aella_irene: (Default)
From: [personal profile] aella_irene
-- If you start a journey with exactly enough luggage to fit into your backpack, within one week it will have expanded by 50% EVEN IF YOU HAVEN'T BOUGHT ANYTHING. I don't understand how this works, and I suspect it blatantly defies the laws of physics.

In my experience, its a natural law all to itself. Like the one where you always end up loosing one sock while on holiday, and find it six months later just when you've got rid of the other one...

Date: 2006-05-16 05:04 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] melusinahp.livejournal.com
That's so funny. I just started reading it, too. (I read it when I was a teenager, but don't remember it at all). Toklien's characters are really one dimensional when compared to J. K. Rowling's, IMO. And Gandalf is such an asshole! He's just blatantly rude to Frodo, telling him how silly and awful hobits are. He's mean.

I feel like we are all supposed to worship Tolkien. That he's meant to be beyond criticism. But his writing just doesn't do it for me.

Apparently, Tolkien originally put forth the idea that the characters in fantasy stories don't need complex characters or personalities, because the complexity of the imagined world gives the story depth. I can't find a link to this idea, but I used to argue about it with a friend of mine in college who was a Tolkien fiend.

Date: 2006-05-16 07:20 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] greenwoodside.livejournal.com
I feel like we are all supposed to worship Tolkien. That he's meant to be beyond criticism. But his writing just doesn't do it for me.

Odd that I've never had that impression. You're from London, I think? If you listen much to Radio 4, then you'll hear the sneer that enters the presenters' voices whenever Tolkien's name comes up.

Date: 2006-05-16 07:42 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mrs-wolf.livejournal.com
I didn't know that was Tolkien who put forth that idea. I would love a quote! I remember being lectured on that idea in Creative Writing class.

Date: 2006-05-16 07:46 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] melusinahp.livejournal.com
I spent a bit of time searching this afternoon, and I just can't find it. I think it may be from his essay, "On Fairy-Stories," but I'm not sure.

Date: 2006-05-16 05:08 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lazy-neutrino.livejournal.com
If you start a journey with exactly enough luggage to fit into your backpack, within one week it will have expanded by 50% EVEN IF YOU HAVEN'T BOUGHT ANYTHING. I don't understand how this works, and I suspect it blatantly defies the laws of physics.

No, that one's fine, actually, sorry. Second Law of Thermodynamics: the amount of disorder in a closed system (such as a backpack) may not decrease, and will probably increase, with time.

The classic example is the Eisberg lettuce. Can you put one back together again? Thought not!

Date: 2006-05-16 05:37 pm (UTC)
ext_13197: Hexe (Default)
From: [identity profile] kennahijja.livejournal.com
*snicker*

Perfect image :). That reminds me of a childhood favourite horror penny dreadful (are they still called that, and do they even exist in the English-speaking world any longer), where the Prince of Hell (they were all called Asmodis, don't ask) gets trapped in a hostile dimension bubble with the stunning demon huntress, trying to protect the world from destruction by the ultimate evil (called 'Moron', and no, I never said I read the intellectually challenging stuff while growing up).

Anyway, *she* insists that if they got in, there's got to be a way out again, and he (*hot* evil critter, I remember well), says,
"Did you ever jump from a diving platform into a swimming pool?"
She: "Sure."
He: "Back up again too?"

Date: 2006-05-16 05:20 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] trude.livejournal.com
is it just me or do none of the characters except Sam and maybe Boromir have actual personalities?

Hm, I really like Merry and Pippin in "The Two Towers",and Gimli has a good moment or two in...the last book I think. And (assuming you are reading "The Fellowship" at the moment) there might show up one ore two characters that you will find less lacking in the personality-field.

Date: 2006-05-16 05:35 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jadeddiva.livejournal.com
Is it just me or do none of the characters except Sam and maybe Boromir have actual personalities?

I think Faramir does, and Eomer moreso than they show in the movie.

Date: 2006-05-16 05:53 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mrstater.livejournal.com
I think after the Fellowship is broken they all gain a little more dimension because each scene deals with fewer characters. Of course the archetypes are still present, but I care more about everyone in TTT and RotK than I did FotR.

Date: 2006-05-16 06:05 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lostcointoss.livejournal.com
The characters get better later in the books, I think. Faramir is pretty awesom, and I always liked Tom and Theoden (and Bill). Also, Treebeard. Best giant talking tree ever.
-dark

Date: 2006-05-16 06:06 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] greenwoodside.livejournal.com
Well..as you said, it is in Teh Epic style.

Just a recommendation: if you have a chance, then listen to the BBC radio adaptation of LotR. It was my introduction to the book. Pretty music, pretty voices. Nice. :)

Date: 2006-05-17 10:59 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nineveh-uk.livejournal.com
I love the radio serial - it was the companion to most of my GCSE art coursework, and I had a massive crush on Robert Stephens' voice (and Robert Stephens in his youth). It was a bit distracting when watching the films, though, because at points where the dialogue was very similar but not quite the same, I noticed.

Date: 2006-05-17 11:00 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nineveh-uk.livejournal.com
That's a fabulous icon, by the way.

Date: 2006-05-17 01:29 pm (UTC)

Date: 2006-05-17 11:23 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dolorous-ett.livejournal.com
Thirded. I have wonderful memories of listening to that programme when it first came on.

Date: 2006-05-16 06:55 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sammee42.livejournal.com
*raises eyebrows* Give the LotR characters time ... they will grow on you and you will learn to appreciate them, especially in the _Two Towers_. I always relish in J.R.R. Tolkien's rich, lucious, and beautiful prose. :)

Have you read the Hobbit yet? You really should start with the Hobbit!!!!

Date: 2006-05-16 07:30 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] krisomniac.livejournal.com
ut oh. Are you knocking LotR? That might be Verrry dangerous. :)

Actually, I fell in love with the characters when I was about ten years old and not a particularly critical reader. The awe still hasn't really worn off, even after more readings than I can count.

Date: 2006-05-16 07:40 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mrs-wolf.livejournal.com
I thought the characterizations were quite good. Bilbo had a great character as did the dwarves in The Hobbit. They did things you wouldn't expect. Actually I would completely disagree with this but won't bore you with my rantings while you're on vacation.

It sounds like an absolutely wonderful vacation. Have fun!

Date: 2006-05-16 07:42 pm (UTC)
snorkackcatcher: (Default)
From: [personal profile] snorkackcatcher
The characters do act as Epic Archetypes, to an extent, but as others have said, once you get past the first half of Fellowship (unfortunately the weakest of the three books), there's a decent enough range. As a kid, it always felt to me like a modern-day Beowulf (which I can remember reading -- translated, obviously -- when I was about 10, possibly even as a class reading project, but can remember almost nothing about now except a general stylistic impression).

Date: 2006-05-16 07:47 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] maple-clef.livejournal.com
It's not just you (both on the backpack and the LOTR front)... In the case of the latter, I think Tolkein got a little carried away with the OMG!Epic! aspect and the worldbuilding thing to worry as much as he probably could have done about populating his rather beautiful universe with 3D characters. Still, I do like LOTR, even if it doesn't sound like it :)

Date: 2006-05-16 08:33 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lareinenoire.livejournal.com
Once you get past Fellowship, the characterisation does get better. He's focusing on slightly smaller scales in TTT, and especially in RotK (my favourite of the three). The first book did drive me crazy, though.

Date: 2006-05-17 01:42 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] neigedens.livejournal.com
If you start a journey with exactly enough luggage to fit into your backpack, within one week it will have expanded by 50% EVEN IF YOU HAVEN'T BOUGHT ANYTHING.

True, and it works in reverse for food in my house now that my brother's home from college. (I mean, I know my mother BOUGHT the Teddy Grahams so where the hell are they?)

Date: 2006-05-17 09:42 am (UTC)
ext_53318: (Eva)
From: [identity profile] sigune.livejournal.com
That reminds me of my own discovery of Tolkien and White... I read LotR when I was twelve or thirteen and loved it, because I was always looking for simple heroism in characters. I was, of course, especially taken with Strider/Aragorn ;). He reminded me of Sir Lancelot, who was then (also of course) my favourite knight of the Round Table. Then I found a copy of The Once and Future King among my parents' books, devoured it, and hated it absolutely because Arthur, Lancelot, Gawaine and Guinevere were so impossibly human; I didn't like that in heroes.

Only - now that I've grown up, I can't bear to read LotR again, I roll my eyes at the heroic!Lancelot stories I used to like, and I still dip into The Once and Future King from time to time. It's become one of my absolute favourites :).

Date: 2006-05-18 09:35 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] a-t-rain.livejournal.com
I plan to teach them back to back, as it happens (probably with a shot of Malory and Anglo-Saxon elegy mixed in, so the students can see what Tolkien and White are playing off of). Should be fun!

Date: 2006-05-17 11:24 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dolorous-ett.livejournal.com
Agree with you about the luggage. I would also like to know what makes it suddenly get so much heavier about halfway through the trip!

Hope you are enjoying the elks, anyway.

Date: 2006-05-17 06:02 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lea-hazel.livejournal.com
The luggage thing? I think it's a combination of two things. When you're on the move, you take less time to pack your bag, and therefore it gets packed less tightly. When combined with the Law of Merphy, their power cannot be resisted.

My brother read LotR many more times than I, and he says the characters do have personalities, but the problem with them is that they're static, rather than growing and changing. Personally, I think Tolkien thought too much in terms of stereotypes/archtypes: the dwarves, elves, Dunadain etc. are distinct from each other, but not among themselves.

Date: 2006-05-22 12:16 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] vytresna.livejournal.com
Oh come on, Gandalf totally has a personality. So does Pippin, for that matter, but... um. And outside of the Fellowship? How's Denethor, Quickbeam, or Eowyn suit you?

But yeah, most characters don't have personalities.

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